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Leaving Neverland Trailer Is Out
 2019-02-19 14:24:03 ET by Jack Anderson

1   494




 Leaving Neverland

HBO released just an hour ago the first (and probably only) trailer of the shocking documentary Leaving Neverland, telling the stories of both Wade Robson and James Safechuck and their relationship with the famous singer Michael Jackson.

Watch it below:


The four-hour two-part documentary will air on March 3 and 4.

 Comments 17

By Gruic on 2019-02-21 07:16:10 ET

4 hours. That's something.



 
 
By Syldana on 2019-03-17 05:29:23 ET


I've seen excerpts and I'll make up my own mind after watching the entire documentary



 
 
By Syldana on 2019-03-17 05:41:04 ET




 
 
By Gruic on 2019-03-17 08:02:03 ET

I still don't understand where are evidences and proofs in this document. Thousands of people are lying each day at courts. Testimonies are not proofs. Everyone can speak for hours. Witch hunt.

People has to let the justice system do its work.




 
 
By Jack Anderson on 2019-03-17 08:31:09 ET

Quote:
Gruic wrote:
People has to let the justice system do its work.


The same justice system that failed to indict Jackson because of false testimonies at the time? We're talking about a troubled man that was abused himself as a kid, was spending most of his time with young boys, openly stated many times he slept with boys, had pictures of naked boys in his secret room, moved from one boy to another as soon as they went into puberty, etc. etc.
And this is not about just one statement, over the years this start to add up. You can also see in the documentary an excerpt from the Gavin Arvizo testimony.
You can also see in the documentary excerpts from when Wade Robson used to lie about Michael Jackson. This is so very obvious to see when he's lying and when he's not.
This is the same today with R. Kelly, he has abused women for years and years and while he was always able to get away free, no one can deny that he is a predator. Watching the six-part documentary "Surviving R. Kelly" is a similar experience as watching "Leaving Neverland".

Obviously, you'll be able to find thousands of videos of people stating that the two accusers are wrong. You can also find videos saying that the 9/11 attacks were part of a government conspiracy and that the Moon landing never took place, or even that the Earth is flat. In our world of abundance of information, we cannot even discern the right from wrong anymore.

As one of the mothers from the documentary explains at one point, I am glad that Michael Jackson died, because he cannot abuse children anymore. I know this might sound exaggerated, but that's how I feel about him. And God knows I love(d?) his music.



 
 
By Gruic on 2019-03-17 08:37:15 ET

Quote:
In our world of abundance of information, we cannot even discern the right from wrong anymore



Exactly.

In a world of lies, neutrality is a duty.



 
 
By Jack Anderson on 2019-03-17 09:09:06 ET

Quote:
Syldana wrote:


Director Dan Reed was asked why he did not interviewed other people or so-called "contradictors." His answer was, to me, perfect. What would be the point of interviewing people outside of the story that were not in the rooms with Michael and the boys? How saying that Michael was a good guy from the outside would provide any sort of contradiction?
Once again, this is not even a documentary about Michael Jackson, this is about the grooming methods and the ways childhood predators act and I think Oprah said it best:


This so damn obvious when watching this crazy interview between Gavin Avrizo and Michael Jackson.

Just look at Michael's face when he suddenly hears that the kid is saying the "if you love me", which is, according to childhood abuse experts, a typical grooming attitude. "If you love me,"... continue the sentence. Later in that video, you can see how the boy is having clearly a loving relationship with Michael. And I won't even comment that Michael looks totally stoned and this is also a proof that he had become a drug addict over time.

If a non-famous person would have done this, he would have been in jail for a very long time.



 
 
By Jack Anderson on 2019-03-17 09:21:26 ET

Quote:
Gruic wrote:

Exactly.

In a world of lies, neutrality is a duty.


Well, should we then not talk about global warming as well? I believe that in a world of lies, we must fight to search for the truth. "You can deny all the things I've seen, all the things I've discovered, but not for much longer because too many others know what's happening out there. And no one, no government agency, has jurisdiction over the truth."
Too many others know that Michael Jackson was a pedophile and raped children. I'll look forward when both of you will have watched the documentary.



 
 
By Syldana on 2019-03-21 21:16:00 ET

Later, I think, I would do a longer analysis of this at other times, but some of the themes of this documentary and the ensuing debate leave me quite puzzled.

- These men grew up in fragile and unsafe family circles

- Wade has over the years kept very close links with Michael and his family, wanted to adulthood in a project related to Michael Jackson, was not retained, and accused as a result of that Michael of pedophilia

- The mums of these two men adopted attitudes about their son's relationship with Michael that were fundamentally debatable and aggravated or provoked a very unhealthy situation, letting themselves be dazzled by the incredible and sumptuous life that Michael offered them

- Jimmy kept the rings offered by his alleged "rapist" ????

- Wade and Jimmy were jealous when a new child came into Michael's life

- Jimmy, after a period of absence in his life, was "delighted" to see Michael again and he wants to return to his home and his family (??? seriously )





 
 
By Jack Anderson on 2019-03-22 05:25:01 ET

Quote:
Syldana wrote:Later, I think, I would do a longer analysis of this at other times, but some of the themes of this documentary and the ensuing debate leave me quite puzzled.

- These men grew up in fragile and unsafe family circles

- Wade has over the years kept very close links with Michael and his family, wanted to adulthood in a project related to Michael Jackson, was not retained, and accused as a result of that Michael of pedophilia

- The mums of these two men adopted attitudes about their son's relationship with Michael that were fundamentally debatable and aggravated or provoked a very unhealthy situation, letting themselves be dazzled by the incredible and sumptuous life that Michael offered them

- Jimmy kept the rings offered by his alleged "rapist" ????

- Wade and Jimmy were jealous when a new child came into Michael's life

- Jimmy, after a period of absence in his life, was "delighted" to see Michael again and he wants to return to his home and his family (??? seriously )



Did you see the documentary now?

I agree with all your points that those are indeed "odd", but this oddity is exactly why this documentary is brilliant. Because I used to see that child molestors were monsters with the face of the devil. I did not imagine that child abusers were mostly monsters behind an angel face, that they often groom children and seduce them, the same way adults seduce each other.
What it shows as well is that it took years for the children, now adults, to realize and accept what had happened to them.
Even myself, when I look back at my childhood, there are things that I thought were "normal" where actually it wasn't at all. Of course, it's nothing of the sort of what Wade and Jimmy went through, but still. For instance, I vividly remember once my father going to a concert at night and letting me in the locked car somewhere in the street. I remember trying to sleep in the back seat and suddenly, some old ladies were looking at me and obviously shocked by it. What did I feel at the time? I felt ashame. Not because of my father, but I felt ashame that those people had seen me, as if it was my own fault. And I promise you it took me decades before I realized that this was an unacceptable stupid thing to do to a young child. I would never think of that particular moment and suddenly, years later, I was like "This was not right!"
Does that make sense? What I'm saying here is that this documentary showed me that things are much more difficult than we would think. We'd imagine that a child would run towards his mother and say "he touched me!", but it's quite the opposite.



 
 
By Syldana on 2019-03-22 06:35:43 ET

Hello,

So I took all the necessary time last night to look with all necessary hindsight this documentary, as well as the debate that followed. Unlike many people, I wanted to observe and hear things in a rather objective way and not as I could have heard: this documentary is shit, it's a lie, they want it money, or do as others who at the sight of that drew the direct conclusion: this confirms without the shadow of a doubt, it is a pedophile.

When you say that you are a talented director, that you claim to have carried out a real investigation worthy of a well-known investigative journalist and that you offer the public a documentary: dependent, biased, using at will the images of 'archive and the point of view of one side, not having interviewed Michael's family, his house staff, lawyers, investigative professionals ... We can see on Youtube, fans of Michael having researches (elements of investigations, mails, trace of facts in time, report of justice, conclusions of investigation made by the FBI ...) downright more professional and reporting or counteracting without any difficulty some remarks of the victims or used to contradict certain aspects of their testimonies. So to that, I do not know if Dan Reed was the best person to do this report. As a film director on the other hand ... excellent editing of the images, music relying on as many violins as possible, narrative going crescendo towards the horror …

This documentary is long, very complete when tracing the life of life of the two alleged victims, mass recovery of many visuals illustrating the film: commercial Pepsi, concerts, photos showing each detail of the lives of the two men and each of their participation in the personal and professional life of the pop star, Neverland ... faced with such a job one wonders about the absence of elements in other areas, knowing that this film will be used certainly during the future trial. Pity. Because I think that when one approaches such a terrible, sensitive subject, as so radically accuses a man who died of facts of such gravity, one does a more complete job and relies on a little more than a long testimony. Before a court of justice, that would be considered my word against his own, and the other voice and today "beyond the grave".

Let's move on to the very content of the stories of the two men ...



 
 
By Syldana on 2019-03-22 07:09:53 ET

The subsequent debate helped me understand why I was puzzled by some of the points in Jimmy and Wade's stories.

During the debate, were present various guests, including a psychologist,I do not remember her name sorry, specialist victims of abuse, children going through the mourning ... I found that she had an interesting look, that she was doing very professional analysis, a speech very "tact" and "soft", but especially "realistic" on all that.

The first thing that appeals to you, and that these two men grew up in fragile family circles and who were in no way protective. Mothers who describe the birth of their son as miracles, who describe Wade and Jimmy as gifted, unbelievably kind, and importantly, as soon as the opportunity to make these two boys become stars, or "the entrepreneurs of tomorrow "presented themselves, they jumped on the occasion and did not shrink from any insane act, or in any case, not long.

Wade and Jimmy not long put, during a long crescendo routing testimony to the unthinkable, to the limit of anxiety as details of abuse are accurate, but they were children and teenagers, when is it adults around them? Couples of parents completely wobbly, mothers who let themselves be dazzled by the promises made by Michael, luxury life, unlimited visits to Neverland, repeated visits of the star in their homes. Honestly when you see these women laughs and smiles, explaining that they were 100% present whether in Neverland or in the hotels while their son was allowed to sleep in the room of an adult man, that they were away small to small, that the distance between their room and that of Michael widened month after month. For me there is indeed violence and abuse, those of two stupidly stupid mothers who had without any reflection because they bet on one or more rewards to the key: a glitzy lifestyle, be the privileged friend of a star, see their son succeed in life. What about the fathers who were over time removed from all this since becoming too bland, or even an embarrassment for the family because of psychiatric problems for one of them. I was shocked to learn that one of the fathers (reported during the debate) had himself been abused during childhood. Projection on the pop star abuse that the child would have suffered from his own father and would not want to charge, because less profitable financially speaking, fear, shame ...? There is something to wonder about, I think.


What we learn about Michael, in his relationship with children, brings to light but much more clearly and much better analyzed an aspect that we had for many, suspected.

We all know that Michael did not have a childhood, a monstrous father and that while many played, went through all the classic stages of childhood, he sang on stage, did rehearsals until late at night to fatten the ambitions of a father who still claims today to have avoided his sons to have entered street gangs. Short...

What does a man once become when he is free and has a mountain of money, will you say to me?

Well he catches everything, inevitably, he remains a child in his head, "Peter Pan syndrome", does not want to grow and adopts spending habits and faces consumption in an aberrant way. May I be proved, in any human being, deprived of something in his life that he has not sought to catch up in this or that area. It was a kid who wanted everything, wanted to have his own little classmates at his birthday and in his everyday life to a close detail, is that in today's society, it is unacceptable for an adult to have such relationships, such closeness and permanently with children. Obviously! And his family, his relatives, a psychologist should have intervened to explain to him that it was necessary to stop this nonsense and that especially ... espeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeciallly ... we never sleep with a child who is not yours!

Michael could be a genius in music, he was very naive at a very high level. But that's what the men who refuse to grow up do and the one who will claim to me one day that a truly adult man dreams of transforming his home into the image of a fairy tale, an amusement park...serious ... it may be a bit easy to categorize a man like Michael, while everything in his life, his material goods, his decisions, his associates are total extravagance. That is why such an accusation is made with tweezers and irrefutable evidence other than "he did that". Where are the photos, videos, testimonials other than the family of Wade and Jimmy? And I would like to allow me to raise a point, a pedophile is not satisfied only children of others, he also attacks his family ... Why his nephews and his own children do not blame him anything?

But this opinion is mine, I do not oblige anyone to validate it of course.

Another charge against Michael, his seductive side (Wade and Jimmy, their family, were under an undeniable charm to him) and manipulative. He is very credible that he was the type to want to get what he wants, on the edge of blackmail, that he was psychologically very sick, carefree, that he should have had friends his age and I do not not for a second that he had sex with Lisa Marie. For me, I very strongly suspect that this man has never been able to have a relationship with a woman, I do not know if he died a virgin, possible yes, but there we would look at a completely different aspect of his personality and I do not have the professional abilities to draw any conclusion whatsoever.

Concerning Wade and Jimmy, they are clearly very affected, psychologically speaking. Why ?? There is the question, Wade, although there is no typical pattern of victim, has constantly sought to be part of the life of Michael and his family, loved him, defended him 2 times when Michael was indicted, wanted to be part of project related to Michael ... Very strange, the victims seek rather to flee their executioner and understand in adolescence or adulthood that they did not like at all or felt embarrassed by what was going on behind the closed doors. Another passage of the documentary I found indecent limit, Jimmy who had kept the rings offered by Michael, Wade and Jimmy jealous as soon as Michael approached another child and icing on the cake: mothers who feel betrayed, abandoned (just like their son), because Michael made his life with others, turned the page on them ... It's not like a smell of revenge because Michael did not make them share his life, his means and / or no longer respected the promises made to families about the future of these two young boys. Can we wonder?



 
 
By Syldana on 2019-03-22 08:15:06 ET

In the end what conclusion to draw from all this. The various analyzes and questions that I have raised are those that one would logically ask. Michael did a good job of cheating with these children, with their families, thinking that these decisions, his change of attitudes, his blatant egoism would have no consequence. They had it. We do not have fun confronting a typical human being, middle class, with dreams, in the brightest sun, then move on, like that, leaving young people desperate on the side of the road . These kids were counting on him, loved him, trusted him and Michael used him as a product that you can get tired of. Now use how? That is the question, were we at a certain point beyond the stage of playing, watching movies and eating popcorn, is the story of these men actually a testimony of frustration, anger at having been betrayed by a god with all the powers and means possible. I remain in the blur, with assumptions, will we know one day irrevocably? 10 years of investigation by the FBI gave nothing, the photos of the body of Michael no longer, the old victims have finally confessed that they had lied ... What justice could do more today? How to prove a thing that all the clues (if there really are any) fade over time? What today would make these testimonies undeniable and irrefutable in the eyes of justice, without Michael's physical presence? I pity these men sincerely, but if these facts really happened it was necessary to act during the living of the pop star, we do not suddenly wake up one day, we do not act right after (like Wade) to have been rejected from the casting of a project on Michael and want to file a complaint, to have money ... The idea is maybe to remain neutral and not to insult these people too much, because there is Koa, because there is Jimmy's son too and that these little ones deserve to have a normal life.



 
 
By Jack Anderson on 2019-03-22 10:01:42 ET

Excellent analysis and it's just a complete delight to be able to exchange (and sometimes confront) ideas with you, Syldana. I think that in our society, social media has reduced our ability to actually engage on an in-depth level with situations. I don't think it's possible to tell any story in 280 words. Hence why I think that forums still have a real place and I like a lot our current platform. Anyway, moving on.

I would like to jump on three comments you've made around the lack of journalistic investigation, the behaviors of the mothers, and finally the manipulative side of Michael Jackson.

1. Investigation
I understand your point of view and in a way, I could easily agree to it. But you have seen in the debate with Oprah that Dan Reed mentioned his goal was not to make an investigation. His goal was to make a documentary not on Michael Jackson, but on childhood abuse. And I think that in retrospect, this is an impressive achievement.
Reed mentioned that asking people outside of their family circles that were not in the room would be irrelevant. If he had asked one of the maids who claimed that she knew Michael was abusing the kids, we would be talking about how she was looking for money and we wouldn't be much more advanced in our investigation. The only ones who have the answer are the kids - now adults.

2. Mother
You mention that the mothers were really stupid. And I'm sure they feel that way, looking back. I think that during that moment, they really did not see what was happening because Michael was such a child himself. How could he abuse any child? He was the singer of that "We are the world, we are the children…" song. He was almost a God and would you be afraid that God rapes your children? It's a blunt way to say it, but you get my point. We do not expect angels to harm us, which brings me to the last point.

3. Manipulative
Oh you are so right, Michael was clearly a very manipulative person. And I think the best manipulators are the ones you'd never ever expect them to be. For instance, in France, many people were shocked when they learned that former budget minister Jérôme Cahuzac, the one that was actively chasing tax fraudsters, was actually a fraudster himself. The example is probably too political, but what I'm saying is that we would never expect such a caring and friendly person to rape children.
And I'm sure that when Michael was looking at himself in the mirror (the so-called man in the mirror), I'm sure he was not seeing himself as a predator. I'm sure he deeply loved those kids, but obviously, this was a crime and I hope that this documentary will help, somewhere, someone.



 
 
By Syldana on 2019-03-22 10:55:44 ET

Yes, a social network like Twitter, will never be the support for a really constructive analysis. The place is limited, the reactions are often fast, hateful ... it's shorter to say that this one is a bitch, rather than argue, analyze ... That's why I will always be more present in forum.

Thank you for your recap, we reached a middle ground between our opinions. The "face of an angel" will remain a mystery for me, because how far are we able to go by unconsciousness of our actions in the end, here is another good question that we can ask at the end of this viewing.



 
 
By lilly on 2019-03-23 05:42:33 ET

are you guys still listening to michael's music now?



 
 
By Syldana on 2019-03-23 15:55:26 ET

Quote:
lilly wrote:are you guys still listening to michael's music now?





Hi,


and yes, because it is out of the question that a documentary influences my musical tastes, I keep my own course of action



 
 





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